If I had to find some sort of definition from the collected works of this little hobby of mine, it would be ‘correcting the record’. In today’s world it’s so, so incredibly easy to have to grasp around for truth, to painstakingly carve out a fraction of it from overwhelming noise and innuendo. But even then, who’s to say that fraction is objectively true? How can you trust it? Who’s saying it? What do they want? Who are they friends with?
Whether it be Infiltration, or Noble, or leverless controllers, I’ve done my best to try and drown out the noise in certain complex topics and see what the underlying facts of the matter were. I’m not always right – people are lying if they say they are – but the curiosity to at least strive for that goal drives me. If the only outcome is that communities are able to have better conversations about a topic because they could finally start arguing beyond the basic facts, then it’s worth the effort. I know full well from past experience that vague “official statements” and Twitter scuttlebutt has proven to be an almost-insurmountable harm to public discourse. Whoever turns out to be ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ will be up to public opinion, but it is always important to push back on popular narratives to see if they can stand up to scrutiny.
So then what to do about Arturo Sanchez?
This is a decent summation of the issue from Eventhubs, but to be brief: Arturo “Nyc_Furby” Sanchez, a 20+ year veteran player and organizer in various fighting game spaces, was let go from his role as a community rep for Esports payment website Matcherino for “breaking Terms of Service” by “mishandling prize pool funds.”, which was announced publicly on December 30, 2022. Sanchez was one of the most prolific users of the website since its inception, having run over 1300 events on the platform as well as raising nearly $480,000 in prize pools for those tournaments. Matcherino also noted they “paid out the players affected” while asking that Sanchez “address what happened” with players and organizers. Here’s the original statement for posterity:
The fallout was immediate. Within days, Sanchez’ longtime collaborator and beloved FGC streaming personality Victor “Sp00ky” Fontanez cut all ties with him:
And major fighting game tournament East Coast Throwdown, a tournament Sanchez has been involved with since its inception, banned him indefinitely from their events:
Those in addition to dozens upon dozens of memes, quote tweets, and various waves of harassment all across social media descended down upon Arturo, who attempted to do a live stream to address the controversy after only posting this tweet in response on 12/30/22:
To say that stream, done on January 3, 2023, was poorly received is an understatement – many earnestly wondered if Arturo had unknowingly confessed to a crime due to his ill-prepared, flustered, and vague-sounding responses that did very little to clarify what exactly happened. The VOD was deleted, and for many that stream was the nail in the coffin for Arturo’s entire FGC legacy.
The weeks since have seen various different bits of information spill into the aether from certain parties, mostly from 3rd party sources that Arturo has been giving information to, and radio silence from Matcherino. Instead of trying to summarize every little info drop, I think it’s easier to look at the biggest claims that have been put into the public record, whether or not they have been proven or disproven, and what the origin of the claim is. I will do my best to merely present the facts as we know them while breaking down the claims, which will require the use of text messages and other images that are redacted to protect privacy. That will surely be criticized as it already has been, but I believe the presumption of good faith is imperative to getting to the bottom of this, so I kindly ask you respect that as we break down the claims against Sanchez.
A lot of the images are not mine originally – the vast majority of them will have been collected from either Twitch streamer and former FGC sponsored player Fanatiq or fellow longtime FGC affiliate Bluerei. This blog would not be possible without them quietly working with Arturo to get the facts straight, and I’d like to properly credit them for that work. You can watch Fanatiq’s videos here, and here’s Bluerei’s Twitter.
- Claim: Arturo Sanchez pocketed payouts from players for personal use, upwards of $5,000, and has been doing so for years
As of this moment, this is 100% unproven. Matcherino’s statement said that Sanchez had “mishandled prize pool funds,” but this does not mean theft. Mishandling of funds can also be:
- Not maintaining proper accounting of funds
- Commingling prize pool funds with personal funds
- Not keeping funds in an account specifically designated for them
The suspicion is understandable, but correlation does not equal causation; no players have come forward claiming that their money was stolen and used for personal matters. Matcherino has also never directly said that players were being stolen from, but implications were clearly taken from their vague statement.
A major piece of evidence for this claim is that a perusal of Arturo’s profile on the Matcherino website would show that for many tournaments, he listed himself as the winner in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, regardless of whether he played in the tournament or not, which meant he would get the payout:
If someone were to go through every Matcherino event that Arturo hosted, devoid of context, it would show that this happened many times throughout the years, going as far back as 2016. One claim has him pocketing, over a period of six months towards the end of 2022, over $5,000. All in all, the total amount that is “unaccounted for” because it went to Sanchez’ account in lieu of the actual winners seems staggering: $144,154.43.
But is this really what it seems? The truth seems a bit more complicated.
For those who don’t know, Matcherino’s website can transfer funds to a Matcherino account, but that’s just a number on a website. To get actual money, one must link either a Paypal or actual bank account to their profile and transfer the funds to one of those accounts. Not only that, but a “Matcherino” account is not a specific profile made with the website, but a linked account from another social media site. Here’s what happens if you press ‘login’ at the home page, for example:
And here’s what it looks like to have money in your Matcherino account. Take note that you can withdraw certain amounts at a time:
Further, it is not possible for an organizer to pay out, ‘finalize’, an event unless the entire prize pool is distributed via the payout parameters (Ex. 60/30/10) that the organizer set for it. Here is a breakdown of that from Matcherino’s FAQ on their website, and pay attention to the special note at the bottom;
The last wrinkle here is that, again according to the FAQ, an admin organizer can only assign winners via their Matcherino account ID being manually inputted, which admins can search for but only if there is an existing account, and it will show if a player has multiple because they’ve logged in via different methods. If they don’t have one, the admin has to manually create a temporary account by getting an email address from that winner, at which point an email on how to obtain and cash out the winnings is sent out:
That’s quite a few steps necessary to pay out a tournament and cash out winnings. The potential complications include but aren’t limited to:
- Player has never ‘logged in’ to a Matcherino account or does not have the social media needed to create an account
- Player is not from the US and cannot understand the website or even access it directly in order to be assigned winnings or cash out
- Player does not have a bank account or Paypal account because they are under 18
- Matcherino site is unable to log someone in so they make a separate account through a different social media, meaning one person may have multiple accounts that they are unaware of
- Some players have a Matcherino account but others don’t, and requests for a proper email so a temporary account can be created go ignored
If any one of those conditions came about, there would need to be significant admin intervention, likely outside the bounds possible by the website. Matcherino’s Terms of Service is quite clear on both the the responsibly of the organizers to help release the funds to only prize pool recipients, not admins or organizer, as well that necessary flexibility for when things go awry:
Again, the special note in their FAQ:
The idea that an admin or organizer would need to pay themselves out and dole out winnings via a 3rd party service like Paypal, something Matcherino requests an authorization waiver for, seems to be pretty common. Here are a few examples of FGC tournament organizers confirming as much or doing that themselves:
In an ironic twist, here is Sanchez in 2021 defending Johnathan “Bum1six3” Farley, a fellow NY FGC TO and prolific user of Matcherino, for using the same method and why it needed to happen at times:
No one has ever accused either Bum or Mike Watson of stealing money for using this method, and it seems unreasonable to assume Sanchez did either, albeit he used the method far more frequently. Especially when there is testimony after testimony after testimony of people who have done business with him in the past and said they were paid, even with lots of money involved:
Sanchez even seemed to try and make players aware of how the process worked, including the fees that both Matcherino and Paypal would incur for cashing out. There’s also a plea for players to make Matcherino accounts in the future, as by taking the cashouts into his personal account, Sanchez was accruing taxes for money that was meant to go to other players:
There is a related claim that Arturo was ‘skimming’ funds away from players via collecting a small fee, 10%, on certain events’ Matcherino pots to help recoup costs that he could put towards the next event. The claim is that he did this without anyone’s knowledge, but Sanchez has gone on record saying that he could get many TO’s to vouch for him, and even showed a message with the TO of Frosty Faustings, ElvenShadow, confirming that there was knowledge:
Sanchez also ran a Matcherino for Battle of the Strongest 3, a Marvel vs. Capcom 2 event in 2020, and it was agreed upon prior that there was to be a split for staff, despite some involved with the event claiming there was skimming (later disproven)
This is also not unusual for Matcherino events, as another NY FGC group, Team Stickbug, has been doing the same thing to help pay for staff at their events, as listed on most of their Matcherino pages:
The ‘skimming’ in this sense was also approved by Matcherino, further proving that few of these things seemed to be done without their knowledge:
There is one other aspect to the ‘skimming’ claim that should be addressed. There was a particular example of monies owed to a player named MasterMike for this event, which was winner-take-all despite the description. That amount, clearly, was $305.63, and Arturo did pay that amount via Paypal. Here is a receipt for that payment:
There was a bit of to-do about this, as $270 is clearly not the same amount on the Matcherino. There appears to at least be a partial explanation, however: both Matcherino and Paypal take out fees anytime anyone cashes out from the website, as explained in the FAQ:
To break it down:
- Matcherino automatically takes 4%, so that’s roughly $12.23. 305.63 – 12.23 = 293.40
- Paypal, according to their site, takes 3.49% + .49 cents for Paypal Checkout for merchants, or roughly 10.24 + .49 cents. $293.40 – 10.73 = $282.67
That leaves roughly $12.67 to account for. Arturo frequently cites that he “assumed tax liability” and lost money doing transactions through Paypal, as it would count as earned income that increased the taxes he’d been saddled with. This is hardly farfetched, as New York is infamous for its heavy taxes on anything gambling related, but it’s unclear if that applies in the form of an immediate state tax on cash out. If that is the case, the 4.5% NY state tax for earners in the $21,401-$80,650 range, which is a reasonable assumption of where Arturo is at, would take the total down into the $260 range. After that, Arturo transferring those monies via Paypal’s Friends and Family option would make it not taxable, and the tax liability claim would check out.
But is that all there is? Again, it’s not clear that if MasterMike were to cash out via Matcherino he’d assume the same state tax. Given Sanchez’s previous good standing with regards to paying out, this would seem like an odd exception. This is worth investigating and following up on, but in good faith and with the presumption that Arturo was not trying to short the player.
To recap, Arturo Sanchez was said to have been cut from Matcherino due to mishandling of funds, but as far as anyone can tell, that didn’t include willing theft for personal gain. Arturo’s habit of claiming himself as the prize placers for events to put funds in his Matcherino account that he could dole out later through Paypal looks shady, but in reality was just his preferred workaround method for the numerous complications that could arise in the process of paying players out through Matcherino. There is no evidence that he ever took all monies from his Matcherino account into his Paypal, just as there is zero proof that he ever used any of those prize pool funds for personal gain.
Sanchez has a long history with the communities that make up the scene, and as such, many have vouched for his commitment to payment. It is highly unlikely that one could secretly pocket over five thousand dollars and no one would ever notice until now – if there’s one thing that should be abundantly clear, none of these communities play around when it comes to theft. Still, there are lingering questions regarding how exactly Arturo’s preference to put prize pool funds from his Matcherino account into Paypal would affect the fees on cash out, and whether or not Arturo was having to do a bit of funny math to get the totals accurate. But enough people have vouched for his accuracy prior to reasonably afford the benefit of the doubt as to the numbers being accurate but sometimes late, which leads to this next claim.
2. Claim: Arturo Sanchez was late on payments for Matcherino prize pools for months at a time
This claim is 100% proven, as stated by Arturo himself in his disastrous live stream as well as several players who were paid late. Here again is the receipt for the payment to Master Mike from this event on July 22, 2022, and look closely at the dates for the messages:
And here’s Arturo saying it in his live stream:
The MasterMike payment is any indication, there was at least a 20 day backlog on some of them at best, but the truth seems to stretch back farther than that. Here are some pages on the Matcherino website that were created and finalized on December 23, with payments going out to a bunch of different players in varying amounts going back to the Defend the North tournament in October and Can Opener events in August. Added up, the totals paid out here are in the range of $5,000 dollars, which might explain how that number was bandied about in the first claim. Matcherino ToS states that admins have a “sole responsibility” to pay out prize pot winners, and that is to be done “no later than thirty (30) days after the end of the event”:
Months-late payments are strictly against ToS, and if I were to speculate as to what the ToS violation and “mishandling of funds” that Matcherino fired Arturo for, I would wager this is it.
There’s really no way around it – late payments are no good and worth extreme scrutiny. Trust is a really big deal in these communities, and the quickest way to lose it is to play havoc with people’s money. Arturo has elaborated on this, citing burnout from a completely full schedule and private matters regarding family causing him to spend nights in a New York ER as to why he fell behind in payments. I imagine that is cold comfort to people who may have waited months for not small amounts of money.
Given that Sanchez has 1300 tournaments under his belt for Matcherino, it’s likely that almost every other day of the week was filled with streaming an online event and managing the Matcherino of that event in 2022. He was also playing in tournaments at that time, frequently appearing across multiple online weeklies as a player, and doing quite well for himself. He was also preparing to run big major events like Defend the North, which was heavily focused on specialized PC optimizations that he innovated for several games. A schedule like that is bound to run anybody down, especially if there are sick family members to care for as well in between. Arturo has no staff, the “NYC_Furby” name is not a team of people – he alone is responsible for all the payments of all the tournaments that he is running. That scenario was a ticking time bomb, and irresponsible to take on all by himself. While there are definitely disproven claims and rampant speculation about theft, the criticism that Sanchez was reckless and irresponsible in taking on all this responsibility onto himself still stands.
Arturo’s work ethic – frequent long breaks, frequent lateness, leaving early – have been under fire, and I think that’s a fair criticism too. To add late payments on top of that is certainly reason enough to say that he “betrayed the trust of players”. There’s a conversation to be had that Sanchez should most assuredly dial back his schedule before he returns to tournaments, and that payments should be handled by a trusted third party rather than him. He claims to have been “off the grid”, but he still frequently showed up in online tournaments, and his timeline of when he was “off the grid” seems to vary wildly. Was he off the grind since August, or October? Anyone can be sympathetic to someone going through a hard time personally, but when people are waiting on money, there’s still some accountability that needs to be taken, and while it is harsh, late payments are something people get fired for in the real world.
Other organizers were aware of the issue, letting Arturo know that players were asking them for payment. Here’s Art saying he needed help via other admins because he was so behind:
Having said all that, there is a big difference between “late paying out” and “absconded with funds”, and it appears that many are conflating the two. As Matcherino said in their original post, and as the associated Matcherino pages from December suggest, all affected players were paid out – this would square up with Arturo’s Notes app statement that Matcherino had been “paid back in full”.
That leads to the next claim.
3. Claim – Arturo embezzled donated Matcherino funds to buy plane tickets for players/himself
Absolutely 100% disproven. There were plans for a Virtua Fighter tournament, VF Global Showdown, that was going to feature Virtua Fighter 5 players from America, Japan, and Europe, but ongoing COVID-19 Pandemic issues have kept the finals from happening. At one point in 2021, Arturo and Harpooneer, a Virtua Fighter organizer, held fundraising to raise money that would fly players to the finals from Japan and Europe. Like a lot of other tournaments, Arturo cashed out all the payments to his Matcherino account, but this time he actually did take the full funds into his personal Paypal account because he was going to be the one to buy the plane tickets they fundraised for. Because of the Pandemic, Arturo never ended up having to buy plane tickets, but the collected monies were not touched. These funds were given back to Matcherino as part of the process of clearing Arturo’s backlog, as evidenced by this conversation between Sanchez and Harpooneer:
Here is the receipt of Arturo sending money to Matcherino, something that would not be done normally, for that purpose:
The funds were never ‘embezzled’ – embezzlement would imply conversion of funds for use different from the will of the original owner, coerced or not, intentional or not. Both Arturo and Harpooneer raised money to be used for plane tickets for international players; there was never any difference in understanding as to how they would be used. That the event in question hasn’t happened yet meant the plane tickets were never bought, and the funds are still available and waiting for when their original purpose can finally be fulfilled, thus no conversion, therefore no embezzlement. I find it hard to believe that anything remotely unethical happened here, and believe once again that Arturo was telling the truth on his stream regarding this.
4. Claim: Matcherino paid out of pocket to make up for Arturo Sanchez’s late payments
This claim is unproven. Arturo has clarified that even before Matcherino tweeted out their announcement, he had squared up what was owed out to players with Matcherino and they had taken it from his account, who then dispersed the funds to affected players via the Matcherino site. Again, here are the pages that confirm this happened well before their announcement:
If it was paid out through the site, that means Matcherino was able to deposit the exact funds necessary into an admin account. It’s possible they have the ability to do that on their own through internal accounting, but remember, Arturo has clarified that he never took every bit of monies into his Paypal account, just that he would allocate amounts there from his Matcherino account in accordance with what was owed. Obviously he got way behind, but there’s no reason to believe the funds weren’t still on the site in his account as he stated. It stands to reason, then, that the PayPal payments shown earlier include both the Virtua Fighter donation drive mentioned previously, and the cashout from what remained in his Matcherino account:
In other words, the original Matcherino statement that all affected players had been paid out was accurate, but the wording of the statement uses the term ‘we’ to refer to who paid out, implying that it was solely Matcherino. We now know that that is only partially true – much like their ToS states, they got involved to help both parties get to where they were supposed to be.
Left out, unfortunately, is the reality that Arturo did not, and does not, have anyone’s money in his personal Paypal account or otherwise, which Matcherino knew. There was a plan, at some point, to publicly acknowledge that Arturo had settled up everything he owed from his account to Matcherino, communicated to Sanchez over texts with Grant Farwell, the CEO and co-founder of Matcherino. Matcherino has yet to make that statement publicly:
Once again, Arturo’s statement that he put out on Twitter and reiterated on his stream seems to be confirmed: Matcherino had recovered the money owed to players, and they are (were?) planning to confirm that no money was missing or unaccounted for from his side, and that it had been paid back.
The simplest proof would of course be evidence from Arturo’s Matcherino account that he had the funds at all. Unfortunately, this is not possible – his main Twitch account was banned by Matcherino, which means there’s nothing to access. There’s no interest in having him regain access from Matcherino either, as these texts again with Farwell, in which show:
Those are the major claims against Arturo, and evidently there is only one of them that appears to pan out in reality or has a degree of evidence against it. It is also clear that the vast majority of these unproven, speculative claims came from a single source, which is this Twitter Spaces that was hosted by NY FGC TO’s Dnyce and Bifuteki the night that Matcherino released their initial statement.
The prevailing understanding amongst the general FGC public is that Arturo stole money, in excess of thousands of dollars, and that was why Matcherino fired him. This is just simply not true. This was not said by Matcherino, they never levied a claim that money was stolen or missing, and as evidenced by the texts here, there is a mutual understanding that Arturo paid everything back and settled up. Remember: mishandling funds does not mean stole out or pocketed or embezzled. The only people saying Arturo pocketed the money were Dnyce and Bifuteki, and later Bum.
It cannot be understated how damaging those claims were, combined with Matcherino’s vague statement, to Arturo. If he had been late paying people and been fired by Matcherino after settling up, the outpouring of condemnation and rage would not have been nearly as intense, and I believe that all goes back to Bifuteki, Dnyce, and Bum being incredibly reckless. Those three have good standing in the FGC for a good reason – like Arturo, they have been veterans of these communities for a long time and done a lot on both the production and organizing sides to help run events for players. People take them at their word, and their words were saying Arturo stole five thousand dollars and that ‘he’s a trash person, I’ve always felt he was a trash person…and he’s going to show his true colors’.
They didn’t even wait less than a few hours to get a Twitter Space together and start making wild claims about a situation that did not happen to them and that they only had second-hand and third-hand knowledge about. Dnyce claimed Arturo could go to jail for what he did. Bifu casually suggested that Arturo could possibly go to prison for two and a half years for what he did. Bum called what Arturo did larceny. Something there was zero proof of then, and zero proof of now, and it was being treated like it was a fact.
And make no mistake, that is what people believe. Again, these are people with a lot of respect and trust in the communities, and they used that standing to viciously drag someone over things they didn’t know anything about. Something that, mind you, he will never recover from. Whether you like him personally or not, what people need to understand is that Arturo will never be able to put aside these accusations. Once it’s out there, it’s out there permanently; the internet never forgets, and he won’t be able to play ranked mode in SFV without someone screenshotting it, firing off a humdinger about theft, and directing a wave of harassment at him.
But that being said, there was a few true things that came out from all these streams:
This, honestly, is a waste of my time. Nothing I write, nothing Arturo could show, none of that will ever matter. Because Arturo cannot defend himself against a vague claim of theft and provide over six years of personal Paypal or bank statements to show that he never stole from anyone, the accusations may as well be true in most people’s eyes. There is no redemption, that everything was accounted for and no one is claiming money was stolen is irrelevant. Arturo Sanchez is a thief, a liar, and everything bad I ever thought about him is in fact true.
The last part there is really critical to understanding the mindset. I’ve never once spoken to Arturo Sanchez, I’ve only seen him post online for years. Like many, I, too, was weirded out by how intense and nasty the Twitter wars over monitors and input latency could get, and I thought he was really annoying about it particularly. I do believe that he would do anything to make fighting games his job, and sometimes that’s doing really silly things like spamming ads all throughout the grand finals of Defend the North.
But here’s what’s key: none of that matters.
Nothing about how I feel regarding Arturo’s idiosyncrasies or work ethic or Twitter likes or whatever has any bearing on the basic, underlying question: did he, knowingly or otherwise, rob people of money? And after looking at everything presented, I can say that I do not believe that he did that. I think he is irresponsible, reckless, and should never have done the things he did because it would get him in trouble at some point, but at no point do I see an instance as to where he had a choice of paying people or personally pocketing it to use elsewhere, and he chose the latter.
Something that really bothers me about all this is when I say nothing matters, I mean nothing. The fact that Arturo has spent over twenty years of his life (for not a ton of personal gain financially) running tournaments, helping players find revenue sources, or helping retro games have a presence and technology to be ran efficiently at tournaments mattered; as soon as one statement was made by a corporation most interested in protecting itself, the knives were out. East Coast Throwdown, a tournament he has been attending since its inception and helped run a lot of tournaments for, including this year, banned him for good the night the Matcherino statement dropped. They have not spoken with him about it, nothing was communicated personally, zip. Bum has blocked Arturo and not spoken to him personally despite doing over nine hours of streams about him, and defiantly stating that “Even if he is cleared, somehow, I wouldn’t believe it”. What the hell is this? Hasn’t he rightfully earned at least a moment’s grace to decipher what really happened?
I won’t throw stones from a glass house, I am not innocent. I am as guilty as anyone about making posts believing the speculations about Arturo, and believing that everything he said in his livestream was a lie. But eventually my curiosity came through, and I’ve spent weeks doing research. The only thing I can do is say to Arturo that I apologize; I talk a big game about waiting to know the facts, and I didn’t. I’ve talked a lot of shit about him regarding any number of things, but when it came to people saying he should go to jail and that he was a thief, I should have known better. But I didn’t. It’s a sickness of our time, and I’m sick too.
I’m pretty open about my opinion that “community” as a term is more or less dead with regard to these hobbies. No community of people that cares about its inhabitants’ well being would act so rashly, so quickly, and with zero accountability for the real harm that recklessness caused. Without even a word to that person privately, people will drag a person publicly, and continue to come up with reasons why that initial gut feeling was actually correct, even though they are wrong time after time again. I see the exact same thing playing out here.
For Bum especially, this is so disappointing. In 2020, he learned full well that vague accusations that don’t stand up to scrutiny can be so potentially damaging. At the time, he begged and pleaded for people to wait, to hear out both sides, and let him gather the necessary stories and information that would absolve him. Yet when Arturo was drowning and asked for the same, he threw him both ends of a rope.
That said, I’m not in the business of revenge. I believe everyone when they say that their dealings with Dnyce, Bum, and Bifuteki have been upstanding and good as much as I believe them about Arturo. I don’t think they’re bad people, and I don’t want them to go into the pillory over this. But at this point, I think Fanatiq is right – if you say something in public, it has to be finished in public too. Neither of these men have any proof that Arturo stole from the community but nevertheless stated it loudly and proudly, which has done a ton of reputational damage to Arturo and will for years. Again, I believe everyone who says people like Bum would give them the shirt off his back, that he looks out for young wayward men. That’s all admirable stuff. This isn’t. It’s ugly, it’s pernicious, and we will not survive it.
To finish, there are a lot of unanswered questions. I don’t claim to have all the answers, but I know that at this point, the burden of proof is on those three men and Matcherino to prove that there was theft. Arturo can show all the bank statements he wants, but it’s clear that will never be good enough. Arturo should absolutely be criticized for his poor work ethic and inability to handle the responsibility given to him that resulted in late payments – it was a mistake. But looking at his longstanding good record, that’s all it was: a mistake. To all those who blatantly labeled him a criminal, that said he should be removed from the communities for safety reasons, all I ask is that you substantiate the claim. I’m reasonable, I’ll listen. Hell if my blog gets invalidated by evidence proving me wrong, I’ll own up to it. Until then, we’ve got nothing left to talk about.